A Bully – What are your thoughts?

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Permalink Reply by Tammy Dantzler on November 8, 2008 at 6:36am

I feel for you and your son. I've never had this experience, but know enough to know that children learn from parents or siblings. This troubled child must be experiencing this at home. However, the teacher is reasonable to all students. There is a really good solution to monitoring classes and pretty economical. The day care facility should place a web streaming video cam in the room to be monitored in the office. These cameras are not expensive and could be added prove that this trouble child needs to either get help or be removed. It's unfortunate if this type of behavior isn't addressed at an early age. This troubled child needs help! If not he will just become a society misfit.

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Permalink Reply by Spottie on November 8, 2008 at 1:23pm

My thoughts: One suggestion...Go unannounced and observe the daycare site and staff and how they interact with the children. What does 'handling' it mean? The site should be able to give you the steps that they follow for intervention. Another suggestion...Encourage the site start a character education or bully prevention program. ~*~

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Permalink Reply by Tonya on November 8, 2008 at 4:14pm

Okay I'd be absolutely ticked off at this. I would be demanding a meeting with the classroom teacher & the person in charge. I would explain the situation and instruct them to do something about it or you will register a formal complaint. It is certainly not fair for one child to be allowed to get away with this and when the other child is pushed to the brink for them to be punished. Bide your time for a week though. Document every single incident that your son tells you about and all the incidents that you already know of. Go in there with it all in writing.

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Permalink Reply by Mary on November 8, 2008 at 4:35pm

I wrote the reply below this paragraph to the same topic on Yahoo anwers and I think it might help you. If I were you I would show up in the daycare at a time they don't expect me and would also try to intimidate the other boy...I know this is illegal but what I did last time my daughter was bullied was that I let her at the classromm door and then told her out loud "remember that if XXXXXXX bullies you again you have my permission to hit her hard and then I'll take care of her parents" That did the trick and the girl was very scared I would do something to her parents...I know that was very bad from me BUT she learned her lesson ;-)

****************************************Yahoo Answers*********************************
I went through that too and my dad hired a bodyguard, taught me Tae Kwon Do and talked to me about ignoring them and all that stuff. Reality is, you can't ignore those people and though bullies end up working for their victims knowing that won't help him much now.

You first should talk to his teachers, the school principal and even the bully's parents. If all that doesn't work then you might want to ask the police or the firemen to offer a class on bullies and self esteem in his school.

Another thing that might help is to build up his confidence and self esteem by motivating him to join groups where he can share his strenghts with others. Tell him nobody can treat him bad if he doesn't allow them too.

Ask him to observe the bully and make a list of his/her weaknesses and next time he/she bullies him, he could hand the list over to that person and tell him/her that by bullying him all people see is what is written there. That could also help him see this bully as a someone who needs help and attention instead of the monster I KNOW he sees now.

Sometimes the best way to protect our children is to teach them how to protect themselves. Thanks to the people that bullied me when I was younger I'm a better person now....and thanks to Facebook I know they are not.

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Permalink Reply by Heather Cook on November 8, 2008 at 5:07pm

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

Except my son was the bully.

You didn't mention exactly what the bullying entailed, but you did mention it was violent. Slamming the door in someone's face isn't violent. Rude, unacceptable, dangerous, etc... but not violent.

For my son, he was labeled a bully because he would react with hands when he didn't know what to say. Our day care staff were close to incompetent and I made sure that the center director knew it. I would arrive unannounced, watch the kids interact from my car when they couldn't see me, and I'd refuse to accept their explanation that my son hit "for no reason". There was always a reason.

And although there are many who thought "well, gee, he hits . . . so his parents must hit him". That's not always true. We're a no-hitting household. Period.

What my son was, was a "finisher". What I'd see was him being picked on (verbally or physically) and then he'd retaliate in a big enough way that the other child would stop whatever it was he had been doing. For whatever reason, he didn't trust that the teacher was going to be able to keep him safe. So darn it, he'd take matters in to his own hands.

All I could do was work with the day care and let them know I had high expectations for supervision of the kids. There's no way you can be in the same room with the kids and not know what's going on. And you can be reactionary. You need to proactively stop fights before they escalate. There were other parents who said "just hit him back" and their children were summarily kicked out of the day care. (Mine was there almost three years, until he started Kindergarten.) They were trying to get everyone to stop hitting with their hands and instigating with words. Because there is very often a LOT of that and parents don't believe their child is "as guilty" as the one hitting. In your example above, your son hit child A because child A slammed a door at child B. There was no "defending himself" involved. This is how it gets so complicated to teach children (boys especially) where the line is for becoming physical. Is it ok to slam a door? Maybe. If what you feel like doing is punching someone in the face.

I made sure my son knew that his behaviour was unacceptable by rewarding good behaviour and discussing the root causes of his anger and the hitting. Now, my son was 3 - 5 when this was going on. He now does not hit and he's very proactive when he sees other children being hit. He's that bystander that won't allow bullying to happen.

Where am I going with this? The only thing you can control is your reaction to this. I don't think you can tell your son that it's ok to hit and at the same time that it's not ok for someone to hit him. If the kids went directly to the teacher each and every time the other child hit him, and refused to interact with him. Someone would notice. Probably the bully, and most certainly the teachers - or at least I'd hope they would.

You do have very valid questions for the day care. This isn't Survior Day Care, it's not up to the kids to figure out how to stop the fighting, it's up to the adults that are with them each day to determine what the dynamics are and figure out the root causes.

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Permalink Reply by Mortira on November 8, 2008 at 10:08pm

The rules in daycares are pretty strict when it comes to 'expulsion'. My sister once worked in a daycare where the oldest girl stole food, bit the other kids, and even passed on a staph infection with one of her bites. But they aren't legally allowed to tell a parent that their child isn't welcome. I don't know why, but that's the way it is.
I can only imagine how frustrating this must be for you. I know of a great personal website about bullying that might help.

Here is a link: http://www.squidoo.com/bullyingatprimaryschool

The author has some really good insights about dealing with the kids, parents and teachers involved in bullying. Your child has a right to learn and play in a safe and supportive environment. Don't give up!
Coincidentally, November 16-22 is Bulling Awareness Week. You could use the opportunity to start a program or group in your community for other parents who need support dealing with bullying. The more voices you have on your side, the better.

http://www.bullyingawarenessweek.org/

I hope that things get better for you both!

-Morti

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Permalink Reply by vivaELvino on November 8, 2008 at 10:21pm

I would want to know what the daycare means by "handling it". They should be able to let you know what their action plan is for dealing with this kind of behavior for any child. It sounds like the bully needs more supervision from the daycare staff so they can intervene more quickly and stop behavior from getting out of control.

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Permalink Reply by Working-mom-of-2 on November 9, 2008 at 2:25am

This would really set off my alarm....
I would try to talk again to the daycare people and I would talk to the bully-parents.
The most important thing about this is finding out what's causing it. Maybe his parents know, maybe not, but I think this is where to start. Since more kids are involved, involve their parents so it really makes an impact.
This way daycare has to act and maybe the bully finds out it's not worth bullying anymore.

I cross my fingers for you and your son. I would hate my son being in a position like this.
Good Luck !

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Permalink Reply by Kipling on November 9, 2008 at 5:28am

I totally agree with Tonya. It is so frustrating and upsetting to have to deal with this and I so feel your pain. I would set up a meeting with the person in charge and absolutely make it clear that you want this to be monitored. I think it is important that you have everything documented. Unfortunately we have to be our children's advocates.

Hang in there, I know this is very stressful but you can make a difference by speaking your mind, I wish you lots of luck in resolving this, keep us posted on what happens.

Tonya said:

Okay I'd be absolutely ticked off at this. I would be demanding a meeting with the classroom teacher & the person in charge. I would explain the situation and instruct them to do something about it or you will register a formal complaint. It is certainly not fair for one child to be allowed to get away with this and when the other child is pushed to the brink for them to be punished. Bide your time for a week though. Document every single incident that your son tells you about and all the incidents that you already know of. Go in there with it all in writing.

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Permalink Reply by Meghan on November 9, 2008 at 9:20pm

Wow. I do daycare myself (granted for younger age) and I have serious rules about bullying. Now I do have strict rules about hitting, but I have to admit that there have been times when a child didn't get in trouble because they were defending themselves against bullying/teasing. I think you are right to not punish your child under these circumstances, and would continue to force the issue with the daycare. I have let a child go from my daycare because he was a bully. It was unfair to always have the other kids put into the situations where they did have to fight back, and it was to the point that I couldn't be in the kitchen fixing snack for two minutes without an incident. So I let him go. Don't let it go. You child does not need the stress so if the daycare doesn't do something about the problem, I would go somewhere else...

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Permalink Reply by Lana on November 10, 2008 at 5:30am

Thanks ladies for your advice and support. The incident at the daycare the other day involved the bully, my son and my son’s friend. The bully intentionally slammed the door into the other child’s face. The child was hit with the door and the daycare responded by telling the boys to stay away from each other. Other incident involved another friend who was punched in the stomach by the bully and my son was choked by the bully about a week ago. The daycare handles it simply by putting the bully in time out. My son is getting frustrated because the bully is hitting and getting away with it most, if not all, of the time. He usually gets off with a warning and anytime another child defends himself, they get in trouble for fighting and are immediately sent to the director for a phone call to the parents.

I have met with the director and teachers several times to no avail. Actually, I was told that the child had a troubled family life and that they (the daycare) were handling the situation with his behavior. Apparently, the bully has recently moved (within the last year) in with his grandmother as a result of his mother going to rehab for drug and alcohol abuse. Well, I do understand that the child is troubled; it does not give him an excuse to act violent towards other children. The daycare does need to intervene, whether it means separating him from his peers or removing him from the facility entirely. I am more concerned with the possibility of the bully seriously injuring another child and most specifically, mine.

I have to agree with my son. Why does the bully simply get a “time-out” for his behavior? I have discussed with my son the possibility of transferring to another daycare, but he tells me it is not fair that he has to be separated from his friends because of the bully. My son has asked the bully be removed from their classroom and I have conveyed that to the daycare and all I hear is that they are handling the situation. At this point, I feel like the only remedy I have is to push the parents of the other bullied children to voice their concerns as well, if they haven’t already done so. I feel like I am being told if I do not like the way they are handling it to find another daycare.

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Permalink Reply by Michelle Cox/Lipsticktocrayons on November 10, 2008 at 6:46am

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I know what you are going through. My fifth grader is being emotionally bullied which is very hard to prove although the bully is a 7th grade girl who has a history of not getting along with other girls. She has ostracized all the girls in her grade (small private school) so now she has chosen my daughter to be her next "victim". The school is not handling the situation well at all. It's a small school and the principle is afraid to ruffle feathers because she doesn't want to lose any families but she already is losing families because of this one child. We are next. We pay too much money to have our daughter afraid to go to school. In the meantime I often show up unannounced during recess where most of the bullying is taken place. Just my presence seems to be keeping this child in line and the teachers do a much better job of watching the children.

Someone here wrote about how her son is a "finisher" and a bully. I wouldn't consider him a bully though. It seems to me that he is actually the one being bullied and retaliates with hitting. Most bullies aren't provoked and if they are that is never a good excuse for using any sort of intimidation. I have 4 kids and have dealt with some degree of bullying with 3 of them and they were chosen because either they were easy targets or there was some jealousy involved. One of them was picked on just for being "different". In most of these situations there was a lot of excuse making and disbelief from the bullies parents. Sadly this does not help the bully. If your child is ever accused of bullying then there's a high probability that he/she is. This is an accusation that is not made lightly and is usually only made if warranted. I'd rather have teeth pulled than call a parent about these kinds of issues with our kids. My point is that stopping a bully starts with their parents and it is very important that they aren't taught to make excuses but to learn that they are in control of their actions no matter what the other child does. If this behavior isn't nipped in the bud then the often child grows up to be an adult bully. I don't think any parent wants that. We also need to keep in mind that bullies can become victims and victims can become bullies. I've seen my own kids come home and bully a sibling after being bullied at school.

Lana, I applaud you for taking this head on at your daycare. I've seen many parents put up or leave a school/daycare because of a bully and sadly that bully never gets help. Your daycare may not be handling this situation well now but hopefully they will do better with the next because it will happen again either with the same kid or another.

I'll step down now from my soapbox.

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