How do you celebrate the (religious) holidays?
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Taken from our comments section, HIRH wanted to know how other non-religious moms/families celebrate Christmas.
I think we can apply this question to other holidays as well like Easter and others.
So moms, let's hear it, how does your family celebrate religiously toned holidays?
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I have never taught my sons about the Christian Christmas as a way to celebrate the day.
I have taught them about the Christian Christmas in my regular religious teachings to them though.
When they were really little, at the ages of not being able to understand, I did use Santa as the gift giver simply because Santa was everywhere, they asked who that was, I explained.
As they got older, I explained that Santa was a fairy tale just like the tooth fairy, leprechauns, unicorns etc, and that I was the gift giver.
Yes, I totally ruined the whole Santa thing for them by the age of 6.
I made it clear though that they could not go to school and tell other kids Santa wasn't real because other parents hadn't told their kids the truth yet.
I told them all about the history of Christmas, the birth of Jesus, the legend of Santa, and explained that neither story was real, that they are just stories, but some parents teach their kids that one or both are real.
I've often wondered how religious parents can do both stories to their kids.
Like how do they get away with saying that the day is the day Christ was born, and that Santa comes down the chimney.
The stories completely go against one another.
But anyway, both my sons have known since about age 6, that neither story is real, that I am the one who buys all of their presents, wraps them, and places them under the tree.
I told them I do it because they deserve a special day once a year to get the toys or games they have been wanting all year, not because they were good or bad, but because I love them and I enjoy watching them tear through wrapping paper and screaming with glee, that their happiness makes me happy.
As for family members like grandparents, aunts, uncles etc, yes, at times it was very difficult to get them to understand that I didn't want to lie to my kids about Christmas, that I didn't want them believing in fairy tales, that if I told them it was Santa, that if they were good they'd get lots of toys, or if they were bad, they'd get rocks and socks, that I didn't want to lie to my kids.
A lot of people have told me that Santa is a harmless "white lie" that parents tell their kids because it makes kids behave, or it gives them something magical to believe in.
I see it as a lie.
I don't teach them that magic is real, so why would I lie to my kids to get them to be good, to get them to believe in magic?
IMO, it's not a harmless white lie, it's an outright lie, and if I am willing to lie to my own children about something like Santa or Jesus, then my children will never be able to trust me to always tell them the truth.
I have made it a point in my home to never lie to my children about any subject, and that includes all of the magical tales about Christmas, Easter, St. Patrick's Day, and so on.
I think we can apply this question to other holidays as well like Easter and others.
So moms, let's hear it, how does your family celebrate religiously toned holidays?
____________________________
I have never taught my sons about the Christian Christmas as a way to celebrate the day.
I have taught them about the Christian Christmas in my regular religious teachings to them though.
When they were really little, at the ages of not being able to understand, I did use Santa as the gift giver simply because Santa was everywhere, they asked who that was, I explained.
As they got older, I explained that Santa was a fairy tale just like the tooth fairy, leprechauns, unicorns etc, and that I was the gift giver.
Yes, I totally ruined the whole Santa thing for them by the age of 6.
I made it clear though that they could not go to school and tell other kids Santa wasn't real because other parents hadn't told their kids the truth yet.
I told them all about the history of Christmas, the birth of Jesus, the legend of Santa, and explained that neither story was real, that they are just stories, but some parents teach their kids that one or both are real.
I've often wondered how religious parents can do both stories to their kids.
Like how do they get away with saying that the day is the day Christ was born, and that Santa comes down the chimney.
The stories completely go against one another.
But anyway, both my sons have known since about age 6, that neither story is real, that I am the one who buys all of their presents, wraps them, and places them under the tree.
I told them I do it because they deserve a special day once a year to get the toys or games they have been wanting all year, not because they were good or bad, but because I love them and I enjoy watching them tear through wrapping paper and screaming with glee, that their happiness makes me happy.
As for family members like grandparents, aunts, uncles etc, yes, at times it was very difficult to get them to understand that I didn't want to lie to my kids about Christmas, that I didn't want them believing in fairy tales, that if I told them it was Santa, that if they were good they'd get lots of toys, or if they were bad, they'd get rocks and socks, that I didn't want to lie to my kids.
A lot of people have told me that Santa is a harmless "white lie" that parents tell their kids because it makes kids behave, or it gives them something magical to believe in.
I see it as a lie.
I don't teach them that magic is real, so why would I lie to my kids to get them to be good, to get them to believe in magic?
IMO, it's not a harmless white lie, it's an outright lie, and if I am willing to lie to my own children about something like Santa or Jesus, then my children will never be able to trust me to always tell them the truth.
I have made it a point in my home to never lie to my children about any subject, and that includes all of the magical tales about Christmas, Easter, St. Patrick's Day, and so on.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Kerry Sauriol on -
I find it hard to NOT celebrate Christmas...I LOVED it as a child, found it all very magical. I loved the feeling as a child that anything could happen on this special night. Have many wonderful memories of it all. We do Santa. We do trees. And I have told them about the Christian reasons for celebrating and the pagan reasons. I have told them the many stories regarding the legend of Santa Claus.
I do not believe that atheism should also mean that there is no wonder or suspension of disbelief. After all..what is playing but just that. Childhood should be about innocence and wonder.
Even for me the idea of this special baby being born that night was magical...even though I grew up not believing in any of it.
Not to mention...I fully believe that kids are not scared for life by the story of Santa. I grew out of it and had fun with it as I grew older with my mom.
I did not consider it a lie.
Just something fun to remember.
So despite my 'indoctrination' and 'lies' as a child....I am left with fond memories and do the same for my kids.
We do letters to and from Santa....like J RR Tolkien did with his kids.
I understand and respect your feelings on it...they are just not the same as mine.
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Permalink Reply by Kat on -
I totally respect your views and opinions on this, I hope you don't think I was downing anyone who does the Santa or Jesus thing, it's just not something I wanted to do with my children.
We do celebrate Christmas, we have a tree every year, we decorate the house, we eat the huge meal, we read the classic stories like the grinch and others, but we don't celebrate Santa or Jesus.
Like you, I also have good memories of Christmas, of believing in the fairy tale, but as I grew up and started thinking about both of the stories, Santa and Jesus, I knew that neither was true.
It did make me question what other things my parents had "lied" to me about in order to make me believe in something. No I wasn't scarred by the stories, but I do question the many other explanations I was told as the reason that something is what it is.
I agree that childhood is a time of wonder, I just made a decision to never lie to my children about any subject, it doesn't matter what subject, I just chose to never lie to make them believe in anything.
I don't want them to suspend their wonder, their curiosity, but I don't want them to believe in fairy tales to have as the reason for a holiday.
Does that make sense?
I want them to wonder about space,the stars, galaxies, the planets, how things came to be, I just don't want a fairy tale to be the reason that something is what it is.
Childhood is about playing, having fun, wonder, all of that, but for me, the truth needs to be known at an age where they can understand it.
For my sons, that age was 6. I told my oldest the truth when he was 6, and told him not to tell his little brother yet. He was 4 at the time. I allowed them to have that amazement until the age of 6, and then we put away the fairy tales and told the legends of each story.
I read to them the Christian story of Christmas, about the baby being born, I sang to them the songs about that night, I read the the legend of Santa Claus, explained how a real man made wooden toys and left them for children, and how every year after that, that people kept the story alive to make children around the world happy and be in awe of the whole thing.
It is magical! Flying reindeer, the north pole factory, magically going up and down the chimneys, all of it.
The truth didn't destroy the fun of Christmas for them at all, if anything, it made them respect the early life of "Santa Claus", it made them appreciate all of the people who kept the legend alive.
I totally respect all parents decisions to tell their kids whatever as the reason for Christmas, that is your right as a parent to do what feels best for you and your family.
I 100% respect how you do it in your home, I just do it differently in mine.
To me, being an atheist is not pushing aside the fairy tales, but researching those fairy tales to get to the truth, to the reasons why we celebrate the holidays.
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Permalink Reply by Just KimU on -
We do all the holidays and enjoy the magic of them. :) To me they are not "lies," as there is truth in everything around us. Just like metaphysics - just because we can't see it/feel it/understand it, doesn't make it wrong.
For me, we totally believe in "magic." I tell each of the kids they have a magic place inside them that can do amazing things. It isn't a lie in my book, but a very real truth. Scientists have proven, beyond a shadow of any doubt, that once we set our mind to something...we can do it. Yes, there are a few exceptions, but that is the case with anything.
Our holiday celebrations center around the joy of that holiday. Easter is a time to watch the Nature bring forth new life (flowers, etc.), and to celebrate our human desire to enjoy the abundance of life. Christmas, St. Pat's, Yule, MidSummer, May Day, and so on, are just ways that humans find a bit of rest from the mortal coil of life.
For my husband and me, joining in the community of those celebrations is not a lie. I truly want to believe in Santa, or the Easter Bunny...or even the tooth fairy. My memories of learning about them being not real never made me mad at my parents, it just seemed that I had to be more "grown up" and stop believing in myths.
As I mentioned earlier, my older two were quite scared of someone coming into the house to bring gifts. My husband and I used to giggle about it...the thought that our children were most likely the only ones afraid of a "jolly old elf" brining gifts. ;) A few years ago, one of my daughters told me that Santa was real, and even if he didn't come to the homes of children anymore ("because there are soo many kids now, mommy), his spirit of love, hope and giving is still alive. =)
Interesting thread...I love the discussions here. :)
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Permalink Reply by Kat on
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I think I'm being totally misunderstood, or I'm reading the replies the wrong way, not how they are intended to be read.
That's ok though, I'm really enjoying the conversation! :D
We all have our views, our opinions and ways of raising our kids without belief in higher powers.
I think I'm the only one here on the far end of atheism, quite a few of you are into Buddhism and other beliefs, where I am not. It's cool though, I'm learning a lot more about other people's belief systems and that is something I have always enjoyed learning about.
That's why I started this group, to have more open-minded moms share what they believe in or don't believe in, in a group that is nonjudgmental and open to hearing those ideas.
I'm not a radical atheist, but I firmly disbelieve in all types of magic, fairy tales and so on.
Kim said: just because we can't see it/feel it/understand it, doesn't make it wrong.
No, it doesn't make it wrong at all, I agree with that statement, but for me, when there is something that can't be seen, can't be felt, can't be understood, instead of just believing that it "is", I try to find out why it is.
I want to get to the logical explanation for it, not just accept it, but to get to that place of understanding it.
As for the "lies", I'm pretty sure I'm being misunderstood.
My parents know that Santa Claus was not real, but they told us he was. They did not tell us the legend of Santa, they only told the basics of Santa. Be good and Santa will bring your presents, he has a huge list where he checks off the names of every child on earth, and he checks off the kids who were good so they will get gifts, and the bad kids will get a heaping lump of coal. They made us put out cookies and milk for him, and carrots for the reindeer, and in the morning the cookies, milk, and carrots would be gone. My folks used to go all out, my dad would go outside and bang on the low part of roof to make it sound like the sleigh had landed, then he'd come in and stomp his snow covered boots on the rug near the tree, and then go back outside and yell Ho ho ho! Merry Christmas! so that we'd hear and believe Santa had come.
I LOVE how they made it special for us, how they made us believe, but they knew it wasn't real, they were doing it all to make us believe.
When I learned the truth, I don't recall what age I was, but learning the truth gave me 2 huge emotions.
One was how much love I had for my parents, how they went to so much trouble to make us happy, to give us some magic, but on the other hand, disappointed because they knowingly lied to us.
I am not angry or mad at my parents for telling me that Santa was real, or that baby Jesus was real, but I do question the other things they said were real .
I have to wonder what other stories or things they told us when we were children were "white lies" too.
It's not anger or resentment towards them, they were doing what billions of other parents have been doing for hundreds of years, but I do wonder what else wasn't real.
I am on the far end of the atheism line, and there are many spots in between.
One end of the line is fully believing in all of the stories, the fairy tales, the magic, and the other end is complete disbelief of all of it, but with a desire to get to the logical and rational explanation of it.
I'm on that end of the line.
I am so loving all of these discussions, getting to know what other people do or don't believe in and why.
I really hope that no one here thinks that I am putting down anyone who tells the stories to their kids, I know that we all do what we feel is the right thing for our families.
I respect each and every single opinion, idea, beliefs. I love having these talks with open-minded people, I learn so much more about my fellow humans, so please, do not stop posting what you do for the holidays, how you celebrate them. I find it all absolutely wonderful to learn more about each of you.
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Permalink Reply by Kerry Sauriol on
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IT is cool..you guys rock.
"but I do wonder what else wasn't real."
I have to say that I never ever connected the story of Santa or teeth fairy's etc to any of the 'real life' lies that my parents fully entrenched themselves in..either the one's to protect me or the one's my dad told us all to make us believe he was cool and er sober.
Honestly..I never did.
Maybe I was and am trusting ...but I always have put 'magic' there with the books I read and still read..the fantasy etc.
I have to admit...Easter annoys me. I never did the bunny as a kid..it wasn't done in the UK....and preferred to respect the Christianity behind it instead. Even as a child. I even try to resist bunny stuff now with my kids.
I don't do St. Pat's because I am not Irish nor Catholic.
Tooth fairy is kind of fun...silly fun.
And I believed in fairies as a kid...I walked widdershins in fairy rings...I WANTED to believe.
I also believe that the more Science uncovers ..the more mysteries are laid out before us.
Life is a mystery. Life IS magic.
There is a lot more to it than we will understand in this lifetime.
Why does DNA glow?
Why do proteins change or copy others when exposed to certain types of light frequency? Why are the ALL the planets in the Solar System heating up?
So many questions....
Kat said:I think I'm being totally misunderstood, or I'm reading the replies the wrong way, not how they are intended to be read.
That's ok though, I'm really enjoying the conversation! :D
We all have our views, our opinions and ways of raising our kids without belief in higher powers.
I think I'm the only one here on the far end of atheism, quite a few of you are into Buddhism and other beliefs, where I am not. It's cool though, I'm learning a lot more about other people's belief systems and that is something I have always enjoyed learning about.
That's why I started this group, to have more open-minded moms share what they believe in or don't believe in, in a group that is nonjudgmental and open to hearing those ideas.
I'm not a radical atheist, but I firmly disbelieve in all types of magic, fairy tales and so on.
Kim said: just because we can't see it/feel it/understand it, doesn't make it wrong.
No, it doesn't make it wrong at all, I agree with that statement, but for me, when there is something that can't be seen, can't be felt, can't be understood, instead of just believing that it "is", I try to find out why it is.
I want to get to the logical explanation for it, not just accept it, but to get to that place of understanding it.
As for the "lies", I'm pretty sure I'm being misunderstood.
My parents know that Santa Claus was not real, but they told us he was. They did not tell us the legend of Santa, they only told the basics of Santa. Be good and Santa will bring your presents, he has a huge list where he checks off the names of every child on earth, and he checks off the kids who were good so they will get gifts, and the bad kids will get a heaping lump of coal. They made us put out cookies and milk for him, and carrots for the reindeer, and in the morning the cookies, milk, and carrots would be gone. My folks used to go all out, my dad would go outside and bang on the low part of roof to make it sound like the sleigh had landed, then he'd come in and stomp his snow covered boots on the rug near the tree, and then go back outside and yell Ho ho ho! Merry Christmas! so that we'd hear and believe Santa had come.
I LOVE how they made it special for us, how they made us believe, but they knew it wasn't real, they were doing it all to make us believe.
When I learned the truth, I don't recall what age I was, but learning the truth gave me 2 huge emotions.
One was how much love I had for my parents, how they went to so much trouble to make us happy, to give us some magic, but on the other hand, disappointed because they knowingly lied to us.
I am not angry or mad at my parents for telling me that Santa was real, or that baby Jesus was real, but I do question the other things they said were real .
I have to wonder what other stories or things they told us when we were children were "white lies" too.
It's not anger or resentment towards them, they were doing what billions of other parents have been doing for hundreds of years, but I do wonder what else wasn't real.
I am on the far end of the atheism line, and there are many spots in between.
One end of the line is fully believing in all of the stories, the fairy tales, the magic, and the other end is complete disbelief of all of it, but with a desire to get to the logical and rational explanation of it.
I'm on that end of the line.
I am so loving all of these discussions, getting to know what other people do or don't believe in and why.
I really hope that no one here thinks that I am putting down anyone who tells the stories to their kids, I know that we all do what we feel is the right thing for our families.
I respect each and every single opinion, idea, beliefs. I love having these talks with open-minded people, I learn so much more about my fellow humans, so please, do not stop posting what you do for the holidays, how you celebrate them. I find it all absolutely wonderful to learn more about each of you.
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Permalink Reply by JennK on -
My family comes from a Jewish background, my husband's from a Catholic one. Neither of our families was very religious, however, so we grew up celebrating the holidays more from a sense of tradition and enjoying the family time, and that's how we continue to celebrate with our own kids. We light the menorah because it's colorful and fun, exchange gifts because it's a nice excuse to spoil each other, and make traditional food because who wouldn't want to eat latkes (potato pancakes) and sufganiyot (donuts). We put up a tree and stockings at Christmas for the same reasons. No Santa, no religious celebration, just the fun of decorating the house and sharing a bit of our childhood with the kids.
We usually celebrate Passover with my extended family. Again, none of us is overly religious, so it's more a time to get together, listen to my great aunt share family stories with the younger generations, and eat. We go through the haggadah (order of the Seder), but it's because there's comfort in keeping the family traditions alive.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on -
Sometime this week a Fisher Price catalog came in the mail. On the front page there is the Little People manger set. Zack (age 7) points at it and says "Mommy, who are these people?". I was pleased only because this kid is a magnet for God/Jesus stuff. He keeps telling me he believes. I'll start another discussion about that.
Anyway, we do Santa and follow family traditions. I'm trying to work Winter Solstice in as a stronger focus. I try to explain any holiday we happen to land on to my kids. There is a "Holidays" section of books at the kids' library and I'm always trying to point them to the books about Kwanzaa or Hanukkah in addition to Christmas.
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Permalink Reply by Lorry Fach-Pedersen on
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Christmas and Easter are both big deals here, but hardly anyone is religious. They are just family times.
DD is too young at this point, but our plan is not to lie about Santa-type stuff, but also not spoil it. What I mean is, it's almost impossible to expect her not to hear about it somewhere. I can encourage her to think about whether or not it's real for herself, the same as I would for gods and religion. I don't just want to tell her "it's all made up." I want her to work it out.
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